GM Says It May Kill Off One of Its Brands

[Steve176]

BMW325- WOW - don't miss the message here, and be a typical liberal. If you are saying doctors don't practice defensive medicine and its not costing millions you need to take your blinders off. Lawyers and law suits are totally out of control (medical and nonmedical) and doctors are trying to protect themselves whether it is done by design or not. The actual dollars paid in law suits as a percentage of the cost of health care are small(although a big number by itself), but the preception is high which leads to the situation we are in. Now on the other side there needs to be away for the public to get information on their doctor as to how competent they are and doctors must be responsible for the tests they order. Meaning that some tests are very expensive and are done just in case. I think right now doctors are monitored by other doctors ( good ole boys club) and it doesn't work. Have an unbiased board montior and provide information, and with that some legal protection would be afforded but not total protection. If unchecked it would give them ( any profession for that matter) a license for abuse. This is called checks and balances . As for the Precriptions, doctors give them out like there is no tomorrow, everyone I know gets one. Its part public demand and part the doctors fault for not explaining what other non drug related solutions there are or finding the least costly drug. The drug companies also play a roll in here because of the cost of the drugs. There is a fine line between controlling the cost of the drug from the drug company (more govenment regulation) and limiting drug research due to lack of return on investment. The system needs to be changed, but, not to a government program.

Debate on any topic is good as long as it is done with an open mind with a pursuit of a fair solution.

 

[aNoodle]

Well, I have news for you - the medical field is FAR from perfect, and our knowledge of the workings of the body and disease is FAR FAR FROM COMPLETE. But, people don't want to realize this - they want to feel that when they see their doctor, they are safe and they will be "cured."

No, I think when it comes to malpractice they're hoping sponges aren't left in their stomachs and their right leg isn't amputated instead of their left. That's all I could expect from a doctor who has popped in to say hello for 2 minutes.

You make it sound like health care is not the doctor's profession. I realize at times, when some doctors in congress are making diagnoses via video tape, it would appear they are all just hacks. But doctors ARE the professionals of health care and they are free to clean up the mess they've created.

I personally have a lot of respect for health care professionals, cuz I know it's something I could never do. Nurses are saints. And most doctors seem to have their hearts in the right place (not blaming illness on their patients' own damn lifestyle choices). At some point they'll get their act together, if for no other reason that the rest of the economy can no longer keep footing the bill.

 

[codex57]

^^^ And that's why the medical associations need to stop protecting those few among themselves that cause the most problems. Same with the legal profession now that I think about it.

 

[Steve176]

Back to the original topic. I just read an article that GM is not going to end one of their brands. They had an interview with Mark LaNeve - sales and marketing chief for North American operations. He said Lutz's comments were misinterperted. All is normal again at GM.

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

BMW325- WOW - don't miss the message here, and be a typical liberal. If you are saying doctors don't practice defensive medicine and its not costing millions you need to take your blinders off. Lawyers and law suits are totally out of control (medical and nonmedical) and doctors are trying to protect themselves whether it is done by design or not. The actual dollars paid in law suits as a percentage of the cost of health care are small(although a big number by itself), but the preception is high which leads to the situation we are in. Now on the other side there needs to be away for the public to get information on their doctor as to how competent they are and doctors must be responsible for the tests they order. Meaning that some tests are very expensive and are done just in case. I think right now doctors are monitored by other doctors ( good ole boys club) and it doesn't work. Have an unbiased board montior and provide information, and with that some legal protection would be afforded but not total protection. If unchecked it would give them ( any profession for that matter) a license for abuse. This is called checks and balances . As for the Precriptions, doctors give them out like there is no tomorrow, everyone I know gets one. Its part public demand and part the doctors fault for not explaining what other non drug related solutions there are or finding the least costly drug. The drug companies also play a roll in here because of the cost of the drugs. There is a fine line between controlling the cost of the drug from the drug company (more govenment regulation) and limiting drug research due to lack of return on investment. The system needs to be changed, but, not to a government program.

Debate on any topic is good as long as it is done with an open mind with a pursuit of a fair solution.

Again, you failed to define defensive medicine, and how its costing millions... Otherwise I agree to a certain extent with the majority of your comments.



Justin: WOAH I must have struck a chord here, I think thats gotta be the longest post on record, but it was one good read . First of all, you need to understand that none of my comments were directed at you (an unspoiled-doctor-in-training with the peoples best interest forward). My problem is with doctors who can hardly speak english who charge big money for short sloppy visits and order a myraid of baseless tests. Just because they tortured themselves and absorbed information and spit it back out for 4 years in medical school doesn't entitle them to a "god-like status" where they are immune to criticism. Sometimes I feel that these pseudo-doctors are merely study-heads who run tests and compare symptoms to what they've seen in the past and what the textbook tells them. In my opinion thats not what a doctor should be, thats a human computer! Nobody is asking the doctor to cure them instantly (usually of their self-created problems) but certainly, a doctor should be able to diagnose things right at least half the time. Sure there are SOME absurd cases which are baseless and filed in the interest of financial gain, but most of these cases are substantiated. Take a relative of mine for example, went to the doctor for abdominal pain and frequent urination. The doctor (urologist) simply prescribed a bladder control medicine and sent him home. Sure enough he comes back symptoms get progessively worse another 3-4 times and the doctor simply increases the dose on that medicine each time and orders expensive prostate screenings all until finally this guy turns juandice and dies and sure enough what was it? advanced hepatic carcinoma. I find it sad that his grandson later said "you know if someone had told me his symptoms I could have diagnosed him myself" and this is with the kids HS freshman biology background, all I can say is what a joke that doctor is and unfortunately his widow didn't sue because she didn't want "another person to feel bad about what happened" and believe me I tried convincing her to. Then ofcourse theres the "wrong leg cutoff cases" and whatnot but the point is proven doctors should be held liable for their mistakes. As for medicine initially not being a profitable field, well I truly appologize but you don't need to rant on that since you shut-down your own argument by stating how you did not enter medicine for the money. Isn't it nice when simple healthcare reform suggestions which we all agree at least halfway on get taken too seriously, and we write essays on a message board to prove our point?

To sum it all up doctors aren't human, but one does expect the doctor to know more than a young child with a Biology textbook.

 

[Average Jae]

so at the end of the day, GM still sucks, doctors suck, trial lawyers suck, and BMWs rule right? forgive me since i didn't bother reading the whole debate started by Scott.. ^^;;

 

[Bmw 325i 7803]

I agree, and save your eyes it wasn't anything worth reading in the first place, nothing productive came out of it anyway, so with that heres a BMW ROCKS! [bmwdance] [bmwdance] [bmwdance] Go BMW...

 

[aNoodle]

so at the end of the day, GM still sucks, doctors suck, trial lawyers suck, and BMWs rule right? forgive me since i didn't bother reading the whole debate started by Scott.. ^^;;

LOL....you mean Matthew?

I'm heading to the NY Auto Show in a couple hours....hope it's not a mob scene...I'll snap some pics...hope they put the M6 on the floor and unlock the doors! I have my fingers crossed!!

 

[Kirby]

DETROIT (Reuters) - General Motors Corp., which issued a shock profit warning last week and has been losing market share, may phase out one of its weaker car brands if sales fail to meet projections, company Vice Chairman Bob Lutz said on Wednesday.

GM's Buick and Pontiac are both "damaged brands" due to lack of investment over the years, and GM is working to correct that with an array of new vehicles coming to market, Lutz told a Morgan Stanley automotive conference in New York....

Interesting. Does Lutz have a multiple personality disorder????

I read an article a few months back where Lutz openly criticized GM for dropping the Oldsmobile brand, saying it was a basically a crime to kill a GM brand. He said HE would have never killed Olds if it had been his decision (he was not working for GM when Olds was killed).

 

[Kirby]

I hate to persist with the off topic discussion, but I feel compelled to respond to your comments.

If you have a doctor that is charging you $255 for an office visit that is "sloppy," then I suggest you find yourself another doctor. The problem with medical malpractice in this country is that no one wants to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong. People seem to forget that doctors are human and CANNOT POSSIBLY know everything there is to know about the body, about every possible disease, about every possible outcome of taking some medication, etc..

....

Just don't sit here and tell ME that doctors need to learn to do their job right. IMO, for the most part, doctors do a DAMN fine job - if yours isn't, then get a new one. The patient needs to learn to do THEIR job right.

Damn straight, exactly right. All of your comments are dead nuts on.

I could go on forever about how health care costs are inflated by bad patients, but I will give two brief examples to show WHERE your insurance premiums and tax dollars REALLY go. Both are patients in my wife's care.

1. Morbidly obese 800 pound 35 y.o. man is brought in on a flat bed truck complaining of respiratory distress. No wonder, his weight is literally suffocating him. He is put on a 2500 calorie diet, loses 200 lbs., the target is to get to 550 so he can qualify for gastric bypass surgery. He has public assistance minimal insurance, so the hospital EATS $1 Million over a 6 month period trying to get this guy to 550 lbs.

He can't get to 550 lbs., the nurses discover that his girlfriend is smuggling candy, chips, etc. into his room. He is uncooperative working with Physical Therapists to get him on his feet and walking. They finally get him to 550 lbs. GUESS WHAT? He let his public assisted insurance plan run out, so now he has NO COVERAGE AT ALL for the gastric bypass!

At that point the hospital GAVE UP and tried to find a rehab center to get rid of him. No rehab center would take him. So now the State of Pennsylvania is paying his girlfriend $350 a week to take care of him at home!!!! My wife did a house call a few weeks ago (he can't wallk again) and he is up over 650 lbs.

2. Medical Assistance Patient comes in with a severe infection in his arm, related to poor circulation due to diabetes. My wife aspirates it and prescribes a strong antibiotic, tells him to come back in 5 days. He does come back, but now it is swollen even more and smells. Turns out he NEVER FILLED THE PRESCRIPTION (which was covered in full by your tax dollars) and it is getting MUCH worse. She aspirates again, tells him he will DIE if he does not follow her instructions and schedules a 3 day follow up. He comes back, guess what? STILL HAS NOT FILLED THE PRESCRIPTION!! IT is now turning BLACK, she winds up admitting him and giving him I.V. antibiotics for 3 days. Again, all on PUBLIC dollars. What was a $100 antibiotic program is now a $10,000+ admission to the hospital.

The problem is - THIS IS REPEATED THOUSANDS OF TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY AT HOSPITALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY. Do the math. MILLIONS of dollars every day, and we pay for it via higher insurance premiums and taxes.

Sorry to hijack the thread again, but ... The question is - What level of services should be provided for patients with no insurance, etc? Is the best, top notch, whatever it costs treatment a BASIC RIGHT or a PRIVELEDGE for those who can pay?

 

[drkeng]

WOW! What a thread. I'm a radiologist specializing in neuroradiology--read CT and MRI studies of the brain and spine. I must agree that a lot of scans are ordered as defensive medicine. Go to an ER with the flu--achy all over......oh, you have a headache--CT of the head. Dizzy (almost always at worst a viral infection), but if you go to the ER, CT head. Sometimew we even see emergency MRI's for a headache--triple the cost of a CT. Ever fall down when you were a kid and hit your head. Parents expect a head CT--99.99% are normal. They say that even a head CT kill a few brain cells. Here's some of my all time favorites for head CT's: Bad dream, can't sleep. Kid hit head, everything fine, except they go to the kid's favorite restaurant and she doesn't order her favorite food--swear that is what the mom said. Guy passes out after sex while peeing--must have one hell of a wife. I digress. I serve as an expert witness in malpractice cases; I call it funny money. I get 300-400 per hour to review the records, 4-500 per hour for a deposition and maybe a few thou if I have to go to court. A guy I work with probably makes 50K a year doing it. Obviously, there are bad doctors. Wrong side surgery, wrong patient, tatooing your initials on some woman's uterus. However, we are human and studies prove we are not perfect (like we need that). Unfortunately, in my field if I don't see something, there's a picture a lawyer can blow up to poster size to show a jury how stupid/negligent I am. Let's say it's a subtle abnormality on 1 or 2 pictures in study that could have anywhere from 100 to 1000 pictures. I read 30-40 cases a day. Do the math. It's hard to explain quickly, but almost always these misses are only visible in retrospect. Show someone an interesting case and you've already biased them that something's abnormal. I could go on, but won't. OK, I will. Illinois is a crisis state, especially for OB and Neurosurgery. A neurosurgeon who does brain surgery pays 250-300K/year for malpractice--do you think they're negligent? They don't give people the horrendous diseases. Some of what a neurosurgeon can do today wasn't even possible 20 years ago. They get sued if they do something or if they don't. Some kind of reform is needed. I think in Germany (or somewhere) if you sue a doctor and lose, you have to pay their defense cost. Here, there's no risk to sue--one lawyer I worked for actually told me he tries to settle every case and avoid court. All that being said, since all those unnecessary tests come to me, that is why I drive a BMW. Just hope I don't make the big miss.

 

[theBMWenthusiast]

that sucks, well not that i care much for GM, but still