Hi all, just wondering, is the "A" on the SMG as smooth as a true automatic? I have heard from some that if one ejoys the smoothness of the steptronic, then one wont enjoy SMG because it is not as smooth. Is that true from your experience? I am not a speed freak of anything, but really appreciates a smooth ride. Thanks
Is SMG's automatic smooth
- Thread starter Toshi
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Toshi, the thing is, the SMG is "not" an automatic transmission, it's a manual transmission that, when in "Automatic" mode, changes the gears for you through a computerized system. Therefore, you feel the change of gears and depending on the drivelogic setting you're in it may be very fluid and sporty (level 5) or a bit slow and jerky (level 1 - for driving in snow and ice). It's not as smooth as an automatic transmission (because it's not), and you can't compare it with steptronic. The thing is, the underlying transmission of an SMG is manual, and the underlying transmission of steptronic is automatic. It's like when you're driving in steptronic mode - it feels no way similar to driving a stick shift. The SMG is so not like an automatic transmission, that when you stop on a hill the car rolls back (or forward depending on the incline) when you take your foot of the brake. So, for me I do the same as when I drive a stick where I balance the clutch and the accelerator - except with the SMG I just balance the accelerator.
That said, if you ever get an SMG, you will never want to drive it in "automatic" mode once you drive it in SMG mode, which allows for the changing of gears through a clutchless (computerized clutch) system. The gears are changed either through paddles by the steering (which I love) or the lever in the traditional location of the stick shift.
Hope this helps.
That said, if you ever get an SMG, you will never want to drive it in "automatic" mode once you drive it in SMG mode, which allows for the changing of gears through a clutchless (computerized clutch) system. The gears are changed either through paddles by the steering (which I love) or the lever in the traditional location of the stick shift.
Hope this helps.
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Thanks bachma for your detailed explaination. Through a little previous research, I notice everyone feels the same way as you do. What I wonder is; where I live, there are a lot of hills, traffic, and ignorant pedistrians. Automatic really makes things a lot easier, and a good one is icying on the cake. Occasionally I take the car out for a spin at late night/early morning on a week night just to let her breath and get some kicks out of it myself. I know its too greedy to ask the best of both worlds. I am ABSOLUTELY sure that SMG is the best for performance driving. But how good is SMG for just relaxed commuting? Thats what I really wonder. I know its a very subjective question. Would an experienced SMG driver, such as you, think that I would enjoy using the SMG "A" when I am half awake in the morning going to the office?
Thanks
Thanks
Toshi, I understand how you feel. Before my first 6 speed M3, I hadn't driven a stick in nearly 10 years, and it was a bit hard to adjust to again. Then I got an automatic BMW X5 which was great - smooth and luxurious driving but very sporty when you needed it to be. The only problem was that it was an SUV, which I don't think I'm ready for as yet. Next came the SMG, the adjustment from automatic to SMG was not that great, and when I first drove it, I did it in "A" mode, and was pleased enough to buy the car. To answer you question, I think you can drive it and relax on those early work mornings. Perhaps stick it in level 3 and the "A" mode, and you should be good to go.
But tell you what, I drove it to work this morning at 6:00AM, and will be heading back home at 10:30PM tonight. I'll probably stick in in "A" mode level 3 or 4 and see how it feels, since I'll be tired. I'll let you know how it rides.
But tell you what, I drove it to work this morning at 6:00AM, and will be heading back home at 10:30PM tonight. I'll probably stick in in "A" mode level 3 or 4 and see how it feels, since I'll be tired. I'll let you know how it rides.
two words.. torque converter. SMG doesn't have one... shifts like a clutch. depending on what you have the setting at in 'A' mode. it's close to an auto... still not as smooth. but close. its fine for being stuck in traffic though. i hardly use auto mode anymore. i did at first when i got the car, but now... i totally prefer the paddles. But, you can tell the difference between an auto and smg (auto). i've got a 325 loaner right now, my M is in the shop for some problems with SMG and its a much different ride. When I drive my M though, my favorite mode is dsc off, sport mode on and the SMG turned up to that 'special' mode. that's the true essence of enjoying an M with SMG.
Thanks bachma for doing that very "scientific" field experiment for me![[:)]](/images/smilies/smile.png "Smile [:)]")
. Please let me know the result. I am very curious. As of right now, I have the C320. Its a great car, but I am thinking about something a bit more athletic. I enjoy the Mercedes transmission very much, very smooth, aside from some minor problems. I just wonder if I would be able to handle the attitude of the SMG. But what you have said is very encouraging.
BTM3, when you say "its close to an auto," can you be more specific, such as the car jerks or makes a very sudden unexpected acceleration? No doubt, the M is made for the "S" and the "special mode," but I guess I am too old to be one of the fast and furious and my heart probably cant take it. HAHA![[xx(]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_dead.gif "Dead [xx(]")
. Please let me know the result. I am very curious. As of right now, I have the C320. Its a great car, but I am thinking about something a bit more athletic. I enjoy the Mercedes transmission very much, very smooth, aside from some minor problems. I just wonder if I would be able to handle the attitude of the SMG. But what you have said is very encouraging.BTM3, when you say "its close to an auto," can you be more specific, such as the car jerks or makes a very sudden unexpected acceleration? No doubt, the M is made for the "S" and the "special mode," but I guess I am too old to be one of the fast and furious and my heart probably cant take it. HAHA
Toshi, I'm sorry, I was too into driving in "S" mode to switch to "A" (I was driving on a highway with lots of turns, and was testing the car's stability at high speeds - passed with flying colors!). But I promise I'll try it when I pick up my car at the dealer this afternoon (putting in a CD Changer), since my drive will be mostly on local roads.
I test drove a Mercedes CLK430 before buying the SMG, and to be honest, I thought my BMW X5 to be much more responsive (both are V8s with 4.4 engines, but X5 is of course much heavier but has more horses - 284 to CLK's 275). Also, the CLK430 felt heavier, which is weird. The CLK did give a very comfortable luxurious ride though (as expected from Mercedes). The SMG on the other hand is stiffer (as expected), but sticks to the road.
I test drove a Mercedes CLK430 before buying the SMG, and to be honest, I thought my BMW X5 to be much more responsive (both are V8s with 4.4 engines, but X5 is of course much heavier but has more horses - 284 to CLK's 275). Also, the CLK430 felt heavier, which is weird. The CLK did give a very comfortable luxurious ride though (as expected from Mercedes). The SMG on the other hand is stiffer (as expected), but sticks to the road.
follow up
BTM3, when you say "its close to an auto," can you be more specific, such as the car jerks or makes a very sudden unexpected acceleration? No doubt, the M is made for the "S" and the "special mode," but I guess I am too old to be one of the fast and furious and my heart probably cant take it. HAHA
Toshi,
depending on what setting you have, even at its lowest setting "smg turned all the way down" it is just like an automatic... not very fun though... on the higher settings, it is much more jerky, even downshifts are jerky. my girlfriend prefers it at its lowest setting, she's used to an automatic and feels more comfortable with it.
BTM3, when you say "its close to an auto," can you be more specific, such as the car jerks or makes a very sudden unexpected acceleration? No doubt, the M is made for the "S" and the "special mode," but I guess I am too old to be one of the fast and furious and my heart probably cant take it. HAHA
Toshi,
depending on what setting you have, even at its lowest setting "smg turned all the way down" it is just like an automatic... not very fun though... on the higher settings, it is much more jerky, even downshifts are jerky. my girlfriend prefers it at its lowest setting, she's used to an automatic and feels more comfortable with it.
Hey hey thanks for the responses you two. You have been the most helpful. Dont worry bachma. I know a winding road is hard to resist. After all.... that's the kind of road the M is designed to drive. I read somewhere (I belive its Edmonds) that since you dont need to downshift for SMG. Correct me if I am wrong. It downshifts for you automatically when you decelerate. So all you need to worry about are the gas pedal and upshift. And thats where you "feel like you are Michael Schumacher in a F1 car."
MB does tend to feel kinda heavy. Its probably part of the "comfort and luxury package." My car does feel sometimes like the Jeep Cherockee I used to drive long time ago. Do I like that heavy feeling? Actually I dont mind it too much, especially on long drives.
BTM3, good thing to know the "A" can act just as automatic and without compromising any comfort. Which level does your girlfriend use mostly, A1?? I thought thats only used in bad weather or snow.
Another thing, with SMG, do you need to start the car any differently, ie brake has to be pressed down before you can turn the engine on or somthing like that?
MB does tend to feel kinda heavy. Its probably part of the "comfort and luxury package." My car does feel sometimes like the Jeep Cherockee I used to drive long time ago. Do I like that heavy feeling? Actually I dont mind it too much, especially on long drives.
BTM3, good thing to know the "A" can act just as automatic and without compromising any comfort. Which level does your girlfriend use mostly, A1?? I thought thats only used in bad weather or snow.
Another thing, with SMG, do you need to start the car any differently, ie brake has to be pressed down before you can turn the engine on or somthing like that?
Toshi, yes, you're right. The SMG mode does downshift for you, but if you need to downshift sooner, you can do it on your own.
You're also right about starting. It has to be in "neutral" ("0" gear) and you have to press the brake pedal before turning the ignition.
It'll be ideal for you to drive one first before you decide, so you'll know exactly what you're getting if you decide to order one.
BTW, the interior of the M3 is not as luxurious (or spacious) as the MB C320, so that's something to think about as well.
You're also right about starting. It has to be in "neutral" ("0" gear) and you have to press the brake pedal before turning the ignition.
It'll be ideal for you to drive one first before you decide, so you'll know exactly what you're getting if you decide to order one.
BTW, the interior of the M3 is not as luxurious (or spacious) as the MB C320, so that's something to think about as well.
Toshi,
My girlfriend keeps the setting at auto (1), turned all the way down. it starts in 2nd gear off the line and shifts really early to keep it smooth. i.e. no jerkiness. the car does downshift for you, if the rpm's drop below 2000 or so, it'll drop gears but you can do it for yourself anytime. (engine braking, what have you...)
My girlfriend keeps the setting at auto (1), turned all the way down. it starts in 2nd gear off the line and shifts really early to keep it smooth. i.e. no jerkiness. the car does downshift for you, if the rpm's drop below 2000 or so, it'll drop gears but you can do it for yourself anytime. (engine braking, what have you...)
Bachma, correct me if i am wrong, so do you 1) pull the center lever to the left position (o position) 2)step on the brake then 3)start the engine? I wish I can test the SMG first, but over here in San Francisco, all M3 are pre-ordered. So listening to what you guys have to say about it is as good as I can get. So all you guys' info are very important and helpful.
Toshi, yes you're correct. You put the key in the ignition, press the brake, change to 0 and then start the engine. The engine will not start if the lever is not in the 0 position. Once started, you can shift into Reverse or A or S mode. Also, when shutting off, if the lever is in 0, there is a beeping for 10 seconds. This is a default setting whereby the computer is indicating that you're not in a gear. I guess it's akin to manual transmission where they say it's best to park in a gear so the car would not roll. I usually ignore the beeping and park in 0 and engage the handbrake, since most of the time I park on a flat surface.
Also, once the car is in gear and moving, you cannot (thank god) shift the lever to R (reverse) in error. In just does not allow you to do it (although I've read this and haven't tried it... not going to try it anyway). Also if you're in SMG mode and engage a wrong gear in error, let's say you're in 2nd gear and slowing down, and mistakenly shift the lever up to 3rd gear, the computer ignores your action and keeps the car in 2nd gear (this I tried).
All in all, it's pretty idiot proof (which is good for me...LOL).
Also, once the car is in gear and moving, you cannot (thank god) shift the lever to R (reverse) in error. In just does not allow you to do it (although I've read this and haven't tried it... not going to try it anyway). Also if you're in SMG mode and engage a wrong gear in error, let's say you're in 2nd gear and slowing down, and mistakenly shift the lever up to 3rd gear, the computer ignores your action and keeps the car in 2nd gear (this I tried).
All in all, it's pretty idiot proof (which is good for me...LOL).
Thank God its idiot proof. I dont even know what the hell I am doing. I am really afraid that Ill wreck the whole car up with this SMG thing. I hope that I wont engage in a wrong gear on the freeway or park the car up and it runs into my washer/dryer. ![[?|]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_banghead.gif "Bang Head [?|]")
I am sure it'll be weird at first without the "P" when parking the car. I think Ill consistantly worrying that my car is going to roll out, especially in this nutty city with all the hills and stuff. If I park with my nose facing down hill, should the gear be engaged in "R" when parking?
Also, you know how when driving an automatic, when you stop, the car would continue to roll forward if the brake is not pressed. An automatic car would just roll forward in "D" or backwards in "R" if the brake is not pressed. How does the SMG behave in that sense without the clutch? Lets say you stop at a red light. The SMG senses the stop and bring you to 1st gear. If you let go of the brake, would the car roll forward like an automatic? Or would it roll either way depending on the incline like a manual without engaging any gear? I know that if you are on a hill, you can press the left lever for 2 seconds and the SMG would try to balance you. But what about when you stop at a flat surface? Would the car still tend to drive forward?
Cheers. You are the SMG MAN![[pray]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_pray.gif "Pray [pray]")
I am sure it'll be weird at first without the "P" when parking the car. I think Ill consistantly worrying that my car is going to roll out, especially in this nutty city with all the hills and stuff. If I park with my nose facing down hill, should the gear be engaged in "R" when parking? Also, you know how when driving an automatic, when you stop, the car would continue to roll forward if the brake is not pressed. An automatic car would just roll forward in "D" or backwards in "R" if the brake is not pressed. How does the SMG behave in that sense without the clutch? Lets say you stop at a red light. The SMG senses the stop and bring you to 1st gear. If you let go of the brake, would the car roll forward like an automatic? Or would it roll either way depending on the incline like a manual without engaging any gear? I know that if you are on a hill, you can press the left lever for 2 seconds and the SMG would try to balance you. But what about when you stop at a flat surface? Would the car still tend to drive forward?
Cheers. You are the SMG MAN
Toshi, these are pretty good questions. Let me try to answer them.
If I park with my nose facing down hill, should the gear be engaged in "R" when parking?
Yes, this is correct.
Or would it roll either way depending on the incline like a manual without engaging any gear?
Yes, this is correct also. It does not move like an automatic when on a flat surface, you have to hit the gas (unless it's on an incline as you mentioned).
I know that if you are on a hill, you can press the left lever for 2 seconds and the SMG would try to balance you. But what about when you stop at a flat surface? Would the car still tend to drive forward?
The 2 second thing actually involves pulling on the left paddle for at least 5 seconds while pressing the brake (the engine races at this point)... then release the paddle. When you take your foot off the brake, you should have 2 seconds to move before the car rolls. I tried this... didn't seem to work. What I do is come to a stop then quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas (gently pressing on it) and kind of balance the car so that it does not move forward or backward. I guess having driven a manual for some time helped with this (balancing the clutch and gas while on a hill). It takes pactice.
On a flat surface, the car stays still until you hit the gas.
I've been to San Francisco... you guys got a lot of hills. Instead of using the "balancing gas peddle" thing, you can just as easy use your handbrake (which BMW suggests for manual transmission). I've done that with the SMG on steep hills and it works fine.
If I park with my nose facing down hill, should the gear be engaged in "R" when parking?
Yes, this is correct.
Or would it roll either way depending on the incline like a manual without engaging any gear?
Yes, this is correct also. It does not move like an automatic when on a flat surface, you have to hit the gas (unless it's on an incline as you mentioned).
I know that if you are on a hill, you can press the left lever for 2 seconds and the SMG would try to balance you. But what about when you stop at a flat surface? Would the car still tend to drive forward?
The 2 second thing actually involves pulling on the left paddle for at least 5 seconds while pressing the brake (the engine races at this point)... then release the paddle. When you take your foot off the brake, you should have 2 seconds to move before the car rolls. I tried this... didn't seem to work. What I do is come to a stop then quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas (gently pressing on it) and kind of balance the car so that it does not move forward or backward. I guess having driven a manual for some time helped with this (balancing the clutch and gas while on a hill). It takes pactice.
On a flat surface, the car stays still until you hit the gas.
I've been to San Francisco... you guys got a lot of hills. Instead of using the "balancing gas peddle" thing, you can just as easy use your handbrake (which BMW suggests for manual transmission). I've done that with the SMG on steep hills and it works fine.
Bachma, very helpful response as always. Let me clearify something then I will stop bothering you. From what you said, the SMG car would stay idle even when a gear is engaged and the brake is not pressed. Would this be true even in "A" mood? I would assume it is since the "A" is still a 6-speed manual trying to act like an automatic.
"What I do is come to a stop then quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas"
-You know, I actually know someones that drives an automatic with both feet. I dont know how rare is this, but he is the only one I know that does this![[driving]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_driving.gif "Driving [driving]")
. Do you know anyone who can drive like that? I guess he would have no problem balancing a SMG on a steep hill.
Cheers.
"What I do is come to a stop then quickly move my foot from the brake to the gas"
-You know, I actually know someones that drives an automatic with both feet. I dont know how rare is this, but he is the only one I know that does this
. Do you know anyone who can drive like that? I guess he would have no problem balancing a SMG on a steep hill. Cheers.
Toshi, no problem with asking me questions... that's fine. ![[thumb]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumb.gif "Thumbs Up [thumb]")
Your assumption about the car not moving in A mode when in gear on a flat surface is true... it does not move until you press the gas pedal. For example, when I'm backing out of my parking space, and I stick the lever in reverse (R), and I remove my foot from the brake pedal, the car does not move until I press the gas pedal. And when I put it in A mode after reversing, it is automatically in gear 1 (in level 2 and above; gear 2 in level 1), and I need to press the gas pedal in order for it to move.
Yeah, I've heard about people driving automatics with both feet.. kinda weird. But I guess it works for them. Incidentally, there is a company that produces a wider brake pedal for the SMG so that you can use your left foot to press the brake. The original brake pedal in the SMG is the same size as in the 6-speed manual. It looked as though they just removed the clutch pedal and left everything else in place. So there's a relatively wide space between the foot rest on the left and the brake pedal. The company I mentioned takes advantage of this extra space by creating a wider brake pedal so that you can easily move your left foot from the foot rest to the brake. This cannot be easily done with the original brake pedal since it's so close to the gas pedal. The company also mentions that it takes practice to drive the SMG with both feet. See the pics below of the original pedal placement on the left, and the wider brake pedal placement on the right.
Your assumption about the car not moving in A mode when in gear on a flat surface is true... it does not move until you press the gas pedal. For example, when I'm backing out of my parking space, and I stick the lever in reverse (R), and I remove my foot from the brake pedal, the car does not move until I press the gas pedal. And when I put it in A mode after reversing, it is automatically in gear 1 (in level 2 and above; gear 2 in level 1), and I need to press the gas pedal in order for it to move.
Yeah, I've heard about people driving automatics with both feet.. kinda weird. But I guess it works for them. Incidentally, there is a company that produces a wider brake pedal for the SMG so that you can use your left foot to press the brake. The original brake pedal in the SMG is the same size as in the 6-speed manual. It looked as though they just removed the clutch pedal and left everything else in place. So there's a relatively wide space between the foot rest on the left and the brake pedal. The company I mentioned takes advantage of this extra space by creating a wider brake pedal so that you can easily move your left foot from the foot rest to the brake. This cannot be easily done with the original brake pedal since it's so close to the gas pedal. The company also mentions that it takes practice to drive the SMG with both feet. See the pics below of the original pedal placement on the left, and the wider brake pedal placement on the right.
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Sorry Bachma, I was away for a couple days so didnt see your reply until now. Thank you for answering my questions. You have been very helpful. You are a bit different then most New Yorkers. Arent you guys all suppose to be mean SOB's?HAHAHA, just kidding [fake]. I visited NYC a couple of times. Couple of my good friends used to live there. You guys are ok[headbang]. I kinda like NYC actually, except that everything is so expensive.
cheers
cheers
LOL! New Yorkers do have that "hard shell", but inside they're all friendly people, willing to give each other a helping hand. Unless, you mess with them first... then watch out!!! ![[:D]](/images/smilies/biggrin.png "Big Grin [:D]")
anyway, i think San Francisco is expensive as well (at least when i visited earlier this year). Prices weren't much different from New York. It's a really nice city though... unlike New York... which i don't like very much... especially in the winter.![[:(]](/images/smilies/frown.png "Frown [:(]")
If you do decide to go with the SMG, let me know how it goes.
anyway, i think San Francisco is expensive as well (at least when i visited earlier this year). Prices weren't much different from New York. It's a really nice city though... unlike New York... which i don't like very much... especially in the winter.
If you do decide to go with the SMG, let me know how it goes.