NO TRACK RACING 2005 M3 CSL - "Competition" Label Only
- Thread starter Stitch
- Start date
Yeah there has been a lot of write-ups in 'evo' magazine about this issue. In fact, BMW are less strict regarding this rule than Porsche as the repeated failure of the GT3 RS's (among other Porsches) carbon brakes are unable to be replaced under warranty due to 'track use'. Given that a set of Porsce's PCCB brakes cost around 30K, you'd be mighty pissed off if it happened to you.
That's why the old men always say the antique cars are easier to maintain (not the body & interior)and modify.
Time to get one of those 87' M6 Coupe. This is what I meant FREEDOM. Save A Lot too! Don't need much modification. Just maintainence.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=4553593953&category=6131&sspagename=WDVW
Time to get one of those 87' M6 Coupe. This is what I meant FREEDOM. Save A Lot too! Don't need much modification. Just maintainence.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=4553593953&category=6131&sspagename=WDVW
![[drinking]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_drinking.gif "Drinking Pals [drinking]"){kind=icon}
Yeah that's a nice M6 for sure. It's in bloody good nick too.
The only problem for you guys is that you only got the US version. This means the original S38B35 (with cat) engine that puts out only 256BHP. The Euro version, which we got in Aussie, has the M88/3 engine (the full 286BHP) without the cats and weighs about 150kg less than the US version. The Euro version is referred to as the M635csi.
We're actually looking at buying one - if I can convince the old man to part with $38,000...- and I actually posted something about it. Check it out:
http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16585
We will probably test-drive it next week as the owner is in England at the moment. One can only dream...![[:I]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_blush.gif "Blush [:I]")
The only problem for you guys is that you only got the US version. This means the original S38B35 (with cat) engine that puts out only 256BHP. The Euro version, which we got in Aussie, has the M88/3 engine (the full 286BHP) without the cats and weighs about 150kg less than the US version. The Euro version is referred to as the M635csi.
We're actually looking at buying one - if I can convince the old man to part with $38,000...- and I actually posted something about it. Check it out:
http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16585
We will probably test-drive it next week as the owner is in England at the moment. One can only dream...
This is what I'm talking about. I did say that BMW were a little more lenient than some...:
From 'evo' magazine
Friday 6th December 2002
Trackdays: Warranty Killers?
Manufacturers of high performance cars know that the best place to show off their cars' capabilities to potential clients is on a race track. It's the ideal venue to explore the increasingly high limits of modern cars in a controlled and safe environment. However, those clients who are seduced into buying a car after being impressed by it on track may be heavily penalised if they venture onto a circuit in their own car. It seems that the growing number of trackdays is of huge concern to manufacturers and that many will simply invalidate a car's warranty if they suspect it has been on track.
evo spoke to a number of manufacturers to see where you stand if you indulge in a few trackdays. Subaru's UK importer, International Motors, was happy to help with our investigations and reassuringly stated that, 'Using a vehicle on track does not automatically invalidate the warranty.' However, IM also pointed out that abuse or misuse - whether on road or track - will invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.
Exactly what qualifies as 'abuse or misuse' isn't defined. There is also some ambiguity as to what sort of track event is acceptable under the terms of the warranty. IM stated, 'The event must be properly managed and marshalled and the driver of the vehicle must be competent to drive on a track and be under appropriate supervision or instruction.'
The message from Subaru seems to be that trackdays in themselves do not always mean that the warranty won't be honoured, but that individual cases will be investigated if there is a suspicion that the car has been abused. It's an approach echoed by Porsche. A spokesman from Porsche GB told us that trackday use doesn't necessarily invalidate the warranty, but if consumables such as brake discs crack early in the car's life they will look at how the car has been driven before carrying out a repair. Porsche distinguishes between failures that are caused by a manufacturing defect and those caused by abuse and act accordingly.
For those of you who think you're never going to be found out even if you do decide to hit the track, think again. Modern ECUs record virtually every detail of a car's use.
Porsches, for example, data log engine revs (including how many times the limiter has been hit), max speed reached, how many times PSM has been disabled, how many standing starts have been performed and a whole host of other information. Put simply, manufacturers know how you've driven your car and will be able to prove it if necessary.
Mitsubishi takes a more ruthless approach. A spokesman was quite categorical that any Evo VII used on track would no longer be covered under warranty. As the Evo VII is essentially a grey import, even when purchased through an official Mitsubishi dealer, it is not covered by a manufacturer's warranty. However, the UK importer treats it like any other Mitsubishi and sells it with a three-year unlimited mileage warranty. Track use makes this null and void, and once again the ECU and more conventional observation techniques are used to make a judgement on the car's use. Having said that, if you go to a Mitsubishi dealer with an electric window fault they're unlikely to turf you out of the door due to warped brakes.
BMW is also clear that trackdays invalidate its warranty. In the case of the M3 SMG, dealers can tell how often the fastest gearchange mode has been engaged (it wears parts of the transmission more quickly) so over-use could be classed as abuse. The launch control function is also logged by the ECU, so use it sparingly.
TVR takes a more realistic line. A spokesman said it had never turned anyone away who'd experienced problems on trackdays. Obviously, things like brake discs aren't covered, but if the car has been driven 'appropriately' (i.e. as a high performance road car, not a race car) TVR customers won't have to worry about invalidating their warranty.
Our findings suggest that the trackday issue is yet to be fully resolved. Manufacturers want to sell high performance derivatives but don't want to be caught out by countless claims for clutch or gearbox failure. But the truth is that more and more people are turning to trackdays in the light of increased congestion and the proliferation of speed cameras. Manufacturers may look to running officially supported, warranty-friendly trackdays, but until then be sure you know what your car maker's attitude is towards trackdays.
Monday 6th January 2003
Trackday Update
Last month's news story highlighting certain manufacturers' refusal to honour warranties on cars used on trackdays caused a storm of interest. We've received dozens of letters, particularly from angry Evo VII and M3 owners as well as a Caterham owner claiming even his car isn't strictly allowed to be used on track under the terms of the warranty! The good news is that some manufacturers now seem to be taking a more realistic attitude to trackday driving.
The biggest news is that BMW has completely revised its policy and now accepts that many of its models encourage track use and that this shouldn't in itself put the warranty in jeopardy. Which should be a relief to all M3 owners out there. The change of policy came into effect the day after evo went to press. Mitsubishi hasn't changed policy as yet but says it is reviewing the issue and should have a definitive judgement by the time the Evo VIII is launched in March.
Bizarrely, one of the few manufacturers to specifically mention that track use is not covered within the owner's handbook is Caterham. However, the company accepts that its products are marketed as ultimate trackday cars and promises to carry out any repairs which are necessitated by a manufacturing error - whether the failure happens on road or track. As with most other manufacturers questioned by evo, Caterham will not replace parts that have been clearly abused.
The fact that all of the manufacturers we have spoken to have admitted that the trackday issue is something of a grey area demonstrates the need for caution before you decide to take your brand new car on to a racetrack. Defining 'abuse' isn't easy but the sophistication of modern ECUs means that you're unlikely to bully a manufacturer into carrying out a repair that they can prove wasn't necessitated by a faulty component. The implications of engine management systems being 'interrogated' after road accidents is an as yet unexplored area..
From 'evo' magazine
Friday 6th December 2002
Trackdays: Warranty Killers?
Manufacturers of high performance cars know that the best place to show off their cars' capabilities to potential clients is on a race track. It's the ideal venue to explore the increasingly high limits of modern cars in a controlled and safe environment. However, those clients who are seduced into buying a car after being impressed by it on track may be heavily penalised if they venture onto a circuit in their own car. It seems that the growing number of trackdays is of huge concern to manufacturers and that many will simply invalidate a car's warranty if they suspect it has been on track.
evo spoke to a number of manufacturers to see where you stand if you indulge in a few trackdays. Subaru's UK importer, International Motors, was happy to help with our investigations and reassuringly stated that, 'Using a vehicle on track does not automatically invalidate the warranty.' However, IM also pointed out that abuse or misuse - whether on road or track - will invalidate the manufacturer's warranty.
Exactly what qualifies as 'abuse or misuse' isn't defined. There is also some ambiguity as to what sort of track event is acceptable under the terms of the warranty. IM stated, 'The event must be properly managed and marshalled and the driver of the vehicle must be competent to drive on a track and be under appropriate supervision or instruction.'
The message from Subaru seems to be that trackdays in themselves do not always mean that the warranty won't be honoured, but that individual cases will be investigated if there is a suspicion that the car has been abused. It's an approach echoed by Porsche. A spokesman from Porsche GB told us that trackday use doesn't necessarily invalidate the warranty, but if consumables such as brake discs crack early in the car's life they will look at how the car has been driven before carrying out a repair. Porsche distinguishes between failures that are caused by a manufacturing defect and those caused by abuse and act accordingly.
For those of you who think you're never going to be found out even if you do decide to hit the track, think again. Modern ECUs record virtually every detail of a car's use.
Porsches, for example, data log engine revs (including how many times the limiter has been hit), max speed reached, how many times PSM has been disabled, how many standing starts have been performed and a whole host of other information. Put simply, manufacturers know how you've driven your car and will be able to prove it if necessary.
Mitsubishi takes a more ruthless approach. A spokesman was quite categorical that any Evo VII used on track would no longer be covered under warranty. As the Evo VII is essentially a grey import, even when purchased through an official Mitsubishi dealer, it is not covered by a manufacturer's warranty. However, the UK importer treats it like any other Mitsubishi and sells it with a three-year unlimited mileage warranty. Track use makes this null and void, and once again the ECU and more conventional observation techniques are used to make a judgement on the car's use. Having said that, if you go to a Mitsubishi dealer with an electric window fault they're unlikely to turf you out of the door due to warped brakes.
BMW is also clear that trackdays invalidate its warranty. In the case of the M3 SMG, dealers can tell how often the fastest gearchange mode has been engaged (it wears parts of the transmission more quickly) so over-use could be classed as abuse. The launch control function is also logged by the ECU, so use it sparingly.
TVR takes a more realistic line. A spokesman said it had never turned anyone away who'd experienced problems on trackdays. Obviously, things like brake discs aren't covered, but if the car has been driven 'appropriately' (i.e. as a high performance road car, not a race car) TVR customers won't have to worry about invalidating their warranty.
Our findings suggest that the trackday issue is yet to be fully resolved. Manufacturers want to sell high performance derivatives but don't want to be caught out by countless claims for clutch or gearbox failure. But the truth is that more and more people are turning to trackdays in the light of increased congestion and the proliferation of speed cameras. Manufacturers may look to running officially supported, warranty-friendly trackdays, but until then be sure you know what your car maker's attitude is towards trackdays.
Monday 6th January 2003
Trackday Update
Last month's news story highlighting certain manufacturers' refusal to honour warranties on cars used on trackdays caused a storm of interest. We've received dozens of letters, particularly from angry Evo VII and M3 owners as well as a Caterham owner claiming even his car isn't strictly allowed to be used on track under the terms of the warranty! The good news is that some manufacturers now seem to be taking a more realistic attitude to trackday driving.
The biggest news is that BMW has completely revised its policy and now accepts that many of its models encourage track use and that this shouldn't in itself put the warranty in jeopardy. Which should be a relief to all M3 owners out there. The change of policy came into effect the day after evo went to press. Mitsubishi hasn't changed policy as yet but says it is reviewing the issue and should have a definitive judgement by the time the Evo VIII is launched in March.
Bizarrely, one of the few manufacturers to specifically mention that track use is not covered within the owner's handbook is Caterham. However, the company accepts that its products are marketed as ultimate trackday cars and promises to carry out any repairs which are necessitated by a manufacturing error - whether the failure happens on road or track. As with most other manufacturers questioned by evo, Caterham will not replace parts that have been clearly abused.
The fact that all of the manufacturers we have spoken to have admitted that the trackday issue is something of a grey area demonstrates the need for caution before you decide to take your brand new car on to a racetrack. Defining 'abuse' isn't easy but the sophistication of modern ECUs means that you're unlikely to bully a manufacturer into carrying out a repair that they can prove wasn't necessitated by a faulty component. The implications of engine management systems being 'interrogated' after road accidents is an as yet unexplored area..