Transmission About to Fall Out? Help!

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Troy NY
#1
Hi everyone,

I've had my 1993 325i (with manual transmission) for almost two years now. I bought the car from a private seller. Ever since I've owned the car, it has made a slight grinding noise/feel (coming from the transmission area) when at lower RPM levels while in gear, especially 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. There is absolutely NO grinding in 5th gear...In 5th, the drive is completely smooth. The previous owner said that he had driven it like that for a while, without any problems, and the mechanic who checked out the car before I purchased it couldn't seem to find anything wrong with the transmission.

For the past month or so, it seems to be acting up more. The cold weather has seemed to intensify the problem. Now, I am having problems with the car "popping out" of reverse and (occasionally, not quite as often) 1st gear as well. The grinding sound/feel seems to have become more pronounced. Also, when at a stop, with the car in neutral and the clutch NOT depressed, I can hear what I can only describe as a slight "whining/moaning" noise, until I fully depress the clutch pedal, at which point this noise stops (I believe that this noise has existed to a lesser extent for a while now too, but that I've just began to pick up on it more because of the other problems which are now more apparent to me while driving.

What worries me the most is the fact that the car is having a lot of trouble at times with Reverse. It will go into Reverse gear, but will quickly pop out most of the time (especially when the engine is cold). I have tried giving it time to warm up, and shifting through all gears (with clutch depressed) to lubricate the transmission a bit before driving. Unfortunately, this is usually of little help). Sometimes I'll just have to grit my teeth and hold the gear stick into 'Reverse' while slowly letting up on the clutch/giving a tiny bit of gas, until I hear/feel a horrible but quick 'pop/grind' as the gears engage into reverse, at which point I can back up the car.

The "Reverse" problem has been happening for almost a month now, and it's bad enough that I've started backing the car into my garage (a huge pain! ) every time I return from a drive, so that I can completely avoid Reverse gear upon the next cold start-up. As my luck would have it, now First is starting to act up too....

A couple of days ago a similar problem started to occur while in First. The transmission will go into First gear just fine, but sometimes (again, with a terrible popping sound) it will suddenly pop out of first, at which point I have just been switching gears to 2nd a bit pre-maturely in order to avoid the gear completely.

So in summary, the slight grinding sound/feel has been coming from the transmission for over two years now, but I feel that the cold weather has made it worse. The problems with Reverse and First Gears just developed around a month ago (when it began getting cold). The whining/moaning (in neutral) has been happening for a while now too, but has also become more pronounced within the last month.

What is most likely wrong with my car??? I am hoping that my entire transmission isn't about to fall out onto the road, because I can't afford to put a new transmission into the car. However, I'd really appreciate your honest opinions concerning what might be wrong with the car, and how much it may cost to fix, because If I'm going to have to get it repaired I might as well do is sooner rather than later when the problems become even worse. Any feedback, comments, suggestions/advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and Happy Holidays!

Sincerely,
-Mike
 
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#3
I am really inept when it comes to transmissions, but it sounds to me like it probably has something to do with your clutch, clutch plate, assembly, or something of that nature...it does not sound like a transmission issue. My friend (although this was an integra, not a BMW) started experiencing this type of problem; his car was having huge problems in first.

ALthough, now that I reread your post, you say it grinds and "pops" out of gears. THere is a thread on this board about manuals popping out and I cannot remember what the remedy was, but I remember reading it. I'd do a search.

Goodluck, sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Sean
 
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#4
I can't give you an absolute answer, but here are some things to look at and consider. I had heard of this problem previously, and since I have a '94 325i, I did some research on it a while ago.

Check external stuff first:
- Worn/bent/poorly adjusted shifter - with the car off and the clutch in, run thru the shift pattern. Does it move smoothly with only a little resistance? If it feels like it's sticking or binding with the engine off, have the shifter & linkage checked.
- Worn/rotted transmission mounts - if they are bad, it will cause problems.

Internal:
- Have the fluid drained, examined, and refilled with the PROPER fluid. I have heard that if someone puts the wrong fluid in these transmissions, they will act up.
- Clutch - Specifically, the clutch bearing. You hear a noise, and it seems you can "coerce" it into reverse. If the clutch is not disengaging completely, it could cause symptoms like this. Justin on this board (JRT67SS350) has a bit of experience with E30 transmissions, he might know a little more.

If it's none of those, then unfortunately there IS a bad history with some of these transmissions. BMW did have some Service Bulletins and had replaced many of these under warranty years ago.

AllData TSB summary page: http://www.alldata.com/TSB/06/93064216.html
230299 MAR 99 M/T - Jumps Out of 1st & 2nd Gear Under Load

And this - http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/techletters/0000ec_techletters02_h/index3.html

There was a problem with the guide sleeve on first and second gear in the Getrag 250, as detailed by the Service Information Bulletin you reference. The factory solution was to replace the gearbox with an original BMW rebuilt unit, and if the problem occured under warranty the replacement would normally be done free of charge. Post warranty, replacement is still the dealer solution; BMW dealerships no longer open drivetrain components for repair—their new policy is to replace instead. Now an updated guide sleeve is available, and that’s apparently what you installed.

BMW's replacement advice is not entirely unfounded. We spoke with BMW gearbox expert Jim Blanton of www.performancegearing.com regarding your problem. Blanton has been rebuilding BMW gearboxes for about 30 years, so he knows what he's talking about. He says there are other causes besides the guide sleeve defect for this gearbox to pop out of first and second gear:

"I have seen a change in the synchro mechanism from early to late. The vast majority of the time, popping out of gear has to do with shift fork wear, which I have seen and heard about, especially for the first and second gear fork in this model (Getrag 220/250). Assuming that a new shift fork is not part of this kit, then if the wear surface thickness is not 4.4 to 4.5mm, it should be replaced. Of course, if the fork is worn then the question is ‘why did it wear?’ So replacing the fork might only be a short-term solution. It's never simple."
 
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#5
Selavia and Kirby,

Thank you very much for your responses. What is the "proper" transmission fluid for a 1993 BMW 325I? Also, how much fluid does the transmission require? Where is the drain and the fill? Sorry to bombard you with so many questions...I just really hope I can get to the bottom of this, and fast!

Any more advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks and Happy Holidays!

Take care,
-Mike
 
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#7
BMW-FW26 said:
Stop running over people duh!
Here's what I'm gonna do:

1) Go get the transmission flushed and re-filled with quality tranny fluid

2) See if these symptoms disappear. If so, excellent.

3) If not, either:

a) Sell the car ASAP before the transmission falls out onto the road

b) Crash it into a tree and collect. Buy a truck and be done with my "BMW Experience" for ten years or so until I can afford it. My "BMW Experience" has only lasted almost two years, yet has already cost me over $2000.

How good are the seatbelts and airbags on these things?
 
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#8
MikeB325i said:
Here's what I'm gonna do:

1) Go get the transmission flushed and re-filled with quality tranny fluid

2) See if these symptoms disappear. If so, excellent.

3) If not, either:

a) Sell the car ASAP before the transmission falls out onto the road

b) Crash it into a tree and collect. Buy a truck and be done with my "BMW Experience" for ten years or so until I can afford it. My "BMW Experience" has only lasted almost two years, yet has already cost me over $2000.

How good are the seatbelts and airbags on these things?

why did you buy the car, if the tranny had been making noise since day one?

I think you should take it to several tranny shops and have them diagnose it before you start thinking of selling, spending money on stuff that maybe be unnecessary, or risking your life (btw, I hope you're joking).
 
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#9
I [/I]was joking :)

I bought the car in the first place because I brought it to the shop for a complete mechanical inspection, and they told me everything looked find and that I was getting a great deal!
 
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#10
It's official: My car is DEAD.

I just drove to the shop. well, tried to. On the way, I had to stop at a stop sign (four-way intersection). I get the right of way, shift into first, and the car does not move.

My transmission has officially SHIT THE BED.

I was able to back up the car, out of the intersection. Thank God that Reverse still worked. I got it backed up about 50 feet and onto the shoulder. I let the car run for a couple of minutes, now that I was out of traffic. I tried putting it into first again, and it decided to work. I turned around and started to head home. Then I got to another stop sign, and the transmission died again.

Luckily there's another shop on my way home. I had to drive half way there in Reverse though (about two miles). That was pretty interesting.

I got the car into the shop's lot, and into a parking spot. I tried getting the car into gear once more. Now nothing will work: not even reverse or neutral.

I'm expecting a call from the shop in a couple hours. I know exactly what I'm going to hear: "you need a new transmission". Well, so much for my BMW, because I'm not gonna drop $2000 or more on a new transmission. I've had the car for less than two years and I've already dumped about $2500 into the damn thing. NO MORE.

Anybody in the Upstate NY area want a 1993 325I in great shape (minus the transmission)? I'm either going to have to sell the car "as-is", or part it out I suppose...Which is a bummer, since I've put so much money into the suspension and various other things within the last 10,000 miles.

It's been a great day so far. [thumbd]
 

dkrace67

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#11
I have similar problems with my 98 323is, when you put it in first, sometimes it will just kick itself out of gear, loudly! I crap my pants every time. My work around has been to leave it in gear at stops, then I never have a problem. It only seems to happen when I put it in gear quickly, like a quick take off. If I put it in gear and wait a bit, then there is usually no problem...but, that's the long story, the question I have for you is if a tranny is "only" a couple thousand, doesn't it make sense to spend that on a car you know and love rather than risk getting another lemon? Just a question...
 
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#12
dkrace67 said:
the question I have for you is if a tranny is "only" a couple thousand, doesn't it make sense to spend that on a car you know and love rather than risk getting another lemon? Just a question...
Well, in my case, No. It doesn't make sense to drop another $2,000 into my BMW (which I've been referring to as 'The Money Pit' for months now) while my baby (a 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo) is sitting right next to it in my garage, collecting dust (Don't even get me started on the 300zx...LOL...I've put over $10,000 into her).

The BMW really was a LOT of fun, but enough is enough in terms of expenses. If it's $500 or so and not an entire transmission replacement, I'll probably bite the bullet and get her fixed. Otherwise, hopefully I can get a thousand or two for the BMW (as-is) and use that cash to invest in my baby (the 300zx).
 

dkrace67

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#13
Well, if you DO find out what is wrong and/or decide to fix it, could you either post the outcome or let me know? I'm curious because I will have to do something to mine as well, and I'd like to do it before I end up driving it to the dealer in reverse (HA! - I'm sorry, I'm not laughing at you, just with you. Hopefully someday you'll look back on this event and have a good fireside story to tell.)
 

Tom

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#15
Just curious Mike, but how many miles do you have? Let's hope that it's only the clutch and nothing major. Either way keep us posted.
 
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#16
My BMW has (or, had) 167,000 miles on it. When I bought it, it had 162,000. So within only 5,000 miles and two years, I've put almost $3,000 into it. This is sad. The worst part is listening to the motor pur like a cat, but knowing that the car's not moving a foot regardless of the great shape the motor is in. :(

I still haven't heard back from the shop, which I'm assuming is NOT good. I doubt it's simply the clutch. I had a good friend of mine "test-drive" it a couple weeks ago (he's a life-long Porsche/BMW enthusiast) and he said my clutch seemed absolutely fine. He definitely thought it was a transmission problem and not a clutch problem.

I'll keep you all posted on what turns out to be the problem as soon as I have a diagnosis.

Could any of you give me a rough estimate of how much a transmission replacement would cost (NOT from the BMW Dealership, but at a smaller shop)? I hope I get lucky and just need a *part* of the transmission replaced instead of the entire tranny, if possible.

Pray for me!
 
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#17
to replace, I believe, can range anywhere from $1200-3800. I know a shop in MD that would do it for about 1,200, but that's with a rebuilt tranny.


And keep the faith, they might just be busy; it still could be something minor and cheap.

You're in my prayers man.

Good Luck,

Sean
 
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#18
Well, Just got the call I had been dreading. My transmission is shot. The entire tranny has to be replaced, and the shop won't even do the work (too big of a job, they said).

Anybody have an idea what I could expect to get for this car if I sold it personally? Would it make more sense to part it out? What should I do?

Anybody in the Upstate NY area interested in buying a 1993 325I in GREAT SHAPE (except for the transmission)? If so, ANY offers (possible including partial trades) will be considered. Email me at [email protected] .

Hope you're all having a better day than me. Time to go put the Twin Turbo back on the road.

Take care, (and *sell your BMW if your tranny starts making ~ANY~ noises*)
-Mike
 
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#19
$2300 to repair

Just got a call from the shop...

The Transmission can't be re-built. there was absolutely no "lubricating fluid" in the transmission case, so the entire transmission and all the gears need to be replaced with a re-manufactured transmission. Total cost: $2300 including labor and taxes, with one-year warranty.

Good Deal? Rip-Off? Let me know your opinions.

-Mike
 
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#20
MikeB325i said:
Just got a call from the shop...

The Transmission can't be re-built. there was absolutely no "lubricating fluid" in the transmission case, so the entire transmission and all the gears need to be replaced with a re-manufactured transmission. Total cost: $2300 including labor and taxes, with one-year warranty.

Good Deal? Rip-Off? Let me know your opinions.

-Mike
It was no oil in transmission? I wonder how the car was moving in such condition at all. Did you notice any leaks? Transmission oil can't just vaporize.
 


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